In this episode John gets to talk about his favourite subject, compounding. We find out about how our use of compounding has grown our business exponentially. So grab a coffee and find out ‘How to Build a Snowman’
There’s liberal amounting of hero-worshipping Warren Buffett, including how he spent $2 Million buying a $57,000 house, and we show you how we used compounding to turn £100 into £120,000, £6,500 into half a million, and £500 into £700,000 a year.
We detail how to use this with devastating effect in your business, and how you could create your own pension, which for £300 a month could net you a lump sum of almost £7 million (note the use of the would “could” there – we were playing with Compound Interest Calculators at the time!)
Big Idea Podcast Episode 3
Below is the transcription of our podcast for you to read through if you prefer:
John: Welcome everybody to episode three of the big idea podcast. Today we are talking all about compounding. My favourite subject in the world. We touched upon it at the end of last week’s episode, and you said to me “What is compounding?”
Jason: I did.
John: You did. Jason and [inaudible 00:00:25] are going to sing a song to you, along the lines of “Do you want to build a snowman?”
Jason: Let it go, let it grow.
John: Let it go. Very [inaudible 00:00:35] The reason I bring up snowman is because my business her, my hero full stop, is a man called Warren Buffett. I think Warren Buffet is currently the third or fourth richest man on the planet. He’s made that money himself. When I was doing some research for this, I think his latest estimated wealth was somewhere in the reach of sixty seven billion dollars. Which he’s amassed literally within his lifetime. He started at age 11 and has just grown his money over that period. Warren Buffett’s got, it’s not actually his book but it’s a book about him. It’s a biography about Warren Buffett. It’s called “The Snowball”. In this book, Warren Buffett tells. He uses a metaphor of a snowball. He says compounding is like … you imagine it’s snowing and these wonderful flakes are coming down.
You hold out your hand and you get a snowflake in your hand. You hold you hand there for a few minutes and you get a collection of snowflakes there, and you literally just package them up into a neat little ball. You just keep on as the snowflakes are coming down. You just keep packing them on, keep packing them on. Eventually you’ll have this tiny little ball. He said “Then imagine you stood at the top of a massive massive hill. All you need to do with a snowball and lay it down on the floor at the top of this hill, and gently started rolling.” He said “The hill will do all the work.”
Basically, the snow is your money, your investments, your time. The hill is time itself, it is a timeline. Compounding is layer upon layer of returns. Most people know it as interest on your interest. If you’ve got money in the bank and it’s earning you 5%, then you’ve got 100 quid and you’re going to have 5 quid. That’s great, but if you don’t spend that 5 quid, then the next year you haven’t got 100 quid in the bank, you have 105 quid in the bank. Then you earn 5% of that. This is the first time I’ve got the [Coke 00:02:51] layer out on the podcast. You’ve got 105 quid.
Jason: He’s rehearsed this. He knows the answers, really.
John: All of a sudden, that becomes 110 pound, 25. You’ve earned 25 pence more than you did the previous year. You do that the next year, and I’ve put that the wrong way around. You’re up to 115 quid. You do that, say 10 years. Seven, eight, nine, ten. All of sudden you’re up to 171 pounds. Normally at 5 pounds a year for 10 years, you’d expect 50 quid return. You’ve actually got 71 quid back. I love the metaphor of a snowball. Just a little amount, roll it down the hill, let the hill of time take the strain.
Jason: [inaudible 00:03:38] that resonates really well with me because I didn’t really get it until you described it that way. This actually is a really good description. Leaving it over that period of time, down the hill, letting it do its own kind of thing where you’re giving it a little bit of energy at the beginning.
John: If you think of it in terms of physics, then that is the time is the momentum that you’re actually applying to the object. The object is your cash, and all you’re doing is saying “Well actually, I’m going to use the momentum of that cash rolling down the hill to just accumulate more cash.” All you’ve got to do then is make sure you’re not stuck at the bottom of the hill and get wiped out by it. Keith Crockford. If you’re listening to this, mate, this is for you. Because he nearly got wiped out by a boulder when he was climbing mount Kilimanjaro a few months back.
Jason: Did he?
John: He did.
Jason: I didn’t know about that.
John: It was a near death experience for him. He did his best Indiana Jones impression, running away from this boulder.
Jason: I’ve got Wile E. Coyote in my mind, then there we are.
John: Warren Buffett doesn’t think in terms … When we thinks of money, he doesn’t think of money in today’s terms. Another fantastic reference from the book. Again, I will drop it in the show notes. If you want to buy the book, it’ll be in there. Fantastic book. It’s not written by Warren Buffett, not an official biography, but it is written by those who are closest to him, know him. Because there’s literally hundreds and hundreds of books about Buffett. In my mind, this is the best one.
Anyway. In there he talks about … He’s a funny man. He’s very anal about money. To the extent that he would come home from a day at the office, and he would go up to his office in his house and he would spend, say three hours, reading annual reports of companies. He did that one day, and I think his son was splayed out on the stairs. I think he’d fallen on the stairs. Warren Buffett just got home, went over him or stepped over him, went up to his office, read his reports, came out an hour later and said “Oh, are you okay down there?” Because he was literally that focused and that driven.
When he met the first misses Buffett, and was persuaded that “Well, we’re going to settle down now. What we need to do is we need to actually buy a house.” He was mortified because this house was going to cost him. Well his wife said the house was going to cost him $57,000. To Warren Buffett, $57,000 was what it was worth now. In his mind, $57,000 compounded for 20 years at 20%, which is what he was doing at the time. Literally, he was growing his money by 20% every year. He said “If I spend $57,000 on that house. That house had just cost me two million dollars. Why the hell am I going to spend two million dollars on a house?”
He wasn’t seeing what he had as that little snowball. He was seeing what that little snowball was going to be, 20 years down the hill. To him, that was just mad to think “Why would I was two million pounds on a house?” You’re going back to nineteen fifty something, but from his point of view, that house was never going to be worth two million pounds. Whereas that $57,000 cash would, because he knew what to do. He knew how to grow that from 57,000 to two million.
Jason: Did they live in a trailer park then, did they?
John: Actually they still live in the same house.
Jason: Still live in the same house.
John: I’d say he’s the fourth richest man on the planet. Still lives in the same house. I think his car is 20 years old.
Jason: Oh wow.
John: He just says “Well why would I buy a depreciating asset, when I can appreciate my money? Why spend 10 grand on a car that’s going to be worth 5 grand in two years’ time, that is going to be scrapped in six years’ time or it’s worth $1,000. When I can take that $10,000 and turn it into $20,000 in seven years.”
Jason: Fair point there.
John: That’s kind of the way we’re now working within our own business. Is we’re working to 20 year plans. We’re using that hill of time. If we can take 100 grand of our money and just roll it down the hill, then using nothing but compounding, we can turn it into a million pound plus. Just by literally packing on as much snow as possible and rolling it down the hill. That sounds really simple.
Jason: It does sound really simple John. There’s a lot of listeners that are going to go “Ah, that sounds really simple.” Tell us how.
John: The main thing is that you need to be able to beat the market, and you’ve got to be able to beat inflation. I don’t want to get too involved, but what’s the current rate of inflation?
Jason: Just under 2%. It’s over 2%, 4%?
John: That’s the official, right.
John: I would say it’s somewhere between five and ten percent. Based purely on “Do you feel if you’ve had a pay rise every year, do you feel better off than you were five years ago? If you’ve had a pay rise of more than 2%.” House prices have gone up more than that. Do Mars bars get bigger every year, or do they seem to be shrinking? We’re recording this.
John: Yeah, Toblerones. Exactly.
Jason: They’ve taken away half the peaks.
John: Exactly. Let’s flatten that mountain range. Quality [street 00:09:23] is a perfect one. Every year at Christmastime, there’s this image that goes viral of Quality street in the 80’s. It was this massive tub, and now it’s like a little teacup.
Jason: The price stays the same, I suppose. That’s the thing. You’re not actually paying any more for it, you’re just getting [inaudible 00:09:39] less.
John: You are because you’re paying per gramme more. You’re paying probably 20% more than you were three, four years ago. It’s been hidden as what. A mars bar still costs what, 70 P?
John: Yeah, it does, but it’s 30% smaller than it was. Actually, a Mars bar now costs 30% than it did, in real terms.
Jason: That’s who. [crosstalk 00:10:04]
John: A brief lesson in inflation. That’s what you need to do, is you need to find investments that beat inflation, that beat the market. It’s no good compounding stuff at 2%, 3%. In fact, many investments from the high street, you’re lucky to find that. In our current account, we get .25% on our money. Even compounding that for 100 years. What are you going to get? 10% in return? We’re now working to investments that are not for your average high street investor. You need to be, what’s it called. The words eluded me then. Sophisticated, that’s the word. You need to be a sophisticated investor.
Jason: Sophisticated, very nice.
John: You have to wear a monocle and have a cane. If you’ve ever seen “Trading Places”, it’s like that.
Jason: There is one of my best films when [inaudible 00:11:02]
John: It’s kind of the pair from that. They are sophisticated investors. It’s all about finding the investments that beat the market. For the average Joe, they can’t do that, or can they? You can’t walk into your High Street Bank and say “I want something that’s going to pay me 10% per year, please.” What you can do though is start a business, and you can reinvest in yourself, and your own learning, your own investments there. You can invest in property. You can teach yourself how to trade the stock market. You can teach yourself how to trade the Forex market. These are not without risk, but the risk is for the uneducated. If you educate yourself and actually find out what’s needed to get these returns, make it aim to lose a little bit of money, then you actually can achieve that.
We were looking at now, a basic 10% return. That’s what we’re looking for as a bare minimum from our investments. We’ve got stuff that earns a lot more, we’ve got stuff that earns a little bit less. On the whole, we’re looking for a minimum of 10%. We worked with someone the other day, whereby we made a saving in our business of about 100 to 150 quid a month. I remember sitting there at the time thinking “Why am I spending a day of my time just to save 100 quid?” Because it’s not worth the time. Then all of a sudden I sat there with my favourite tool. Again, I will drop it into the show notes, I’ll put it in the Facebook group as well. If you’ve never played with one of these, you’re in for a treat. It’s called a compound interest calculator.
Basically, you can just put numbers in there, and you can say “Right, if I grew that at 5% per year for 25 years, how much is that worth? Well what about if I grew it at 10% for 20 years? What if I grew it at 10% and added 200 quid a month?” All of a sudden, you get to see these big big numbers come out the the end of it and be “Okay, that’s all I need to do.” Literally, I played with one of these calculators, and I [inaudible 00:13:17] right. Let’s say we save between 100 and 150 quid a month. I think I might have put an average of what, 125 in?
Jason: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
John: What if we invest that money. Instead of just chucking it back into the business and it sits in the working capital fund earning .25%, what if we put that money to work, earning 10%, and we compound that for 10 years. I was going to ask you how much you think that’s going to be, but you just read the script.
Jason: Where is it?
John: That was a bombshell, but this is scripted.
Jason: New to me, hell. What was it? About 100 pound a month.
John: 100 to 150 a month for 20 years.
Jason: 20 years.
John: At 10%.
Jason: 1,200 pound per year is 12,000 pounds over 10 years.
Jason: That’s not bad, is it? That’s a good savings.
John: That how much you actually put in.
Jason: That’s almost worth the saving 100 pounds. Then you’re compounding on that.
John: Times two, so that’s 20 years.
Jason: It’s 20 years. Okay, so that was more. 24,000.
John: 24, yeah.
Jason: Okay, and you’re going to compound that somehow.
John: Yeah. We’re going to compound that at 10%.
Jason: At 10%.
Jason: That’s not just adding 10% on, is it?
John: No. Not at all.
Jason: Because that would be easy, wouldn’t it?
John: That would.
Jason: Okay, go on, John. Maybe not with the mic [inaudible 00:14:32].
John: It depends on, there’s lots of variables there. How much you can actually save per month, whether you get the 10% every year, whether you do it for 20 years religiously. You’d be looking somewhere in the region of $75,000 to $100,000. For 100 quid a month, 150 quid a month saving.
John: Just if you can religiously do that. Just put it aside and chuck that into something that earns you 10%, you could potentially have 100 grand in the bank. To me, for the majority of people who perhaps don’t own their own business, but are thinking “Well actually I’d like to start my own business,” or they’re working for someone and they’re thinking “What am I going to do after this pension crisis coming up?” Well, if you can actually get a decent investment that you can earn 10% on, which is not out of the question. You’re not going to find it on the high street. You’re going to have to put a little work into it. You’re never going to be completely passive. If you can get 10% per year and reinvest everything, and you say you can put aside 250 pound a month for 40 years, so ie your working life.
I know probably if there’s people listening to this in 10, 15 years’ time. Their working life is probably going to be more like 60 years. Let’s say you do it for 40 years. 250 quid a month for 40 years, compounded at 10%. How much do you reckon that’s going to be?
Jason: I wasn’t very good at the last one.
John: Let’s look at the figures. 250 a month, 12 months, 40 years. You’re putting in 120,000 pounds. That’s not a bad lump sum anyway for most people, is it? Actually, just putting money aside is good. If you compound that at 10% per year, you actually end up not with 120,000, not with 240,000, not even with half a million. You would have 1.4 million quid in the bank.
Jason: Wowsers. I know why you like compounding now.
John: 250 quid a month.
Jason: That is pretty good, isn’t it?
John: Basically, if you run the numbers down, you could probably for 200 quid a month, everyone could be a millionaire within their lifetime. Just at 10%. This is where it gets exciting with the compound interest calculator. I was like “That’s great, but that’s at 10%.” What if I worked on these investments and these assets a little bit more, and I got an average of 15% every year for these 40 years? How much does that 1.4 million become then? That then becomes 5.7 million. Yeah, it just quadrupled it again. That’s fantastic.
If I can get 15%, what if I don’t invest 250 quid a month? What if I can find an extra 50 pounds a month? What difference would that 50 quid, just the 50 quid, make to that overall investment? I’ll tell you because I ran the numbers this morning.
Jason: You’ve done very good with these numbers, I’ve got to say.
John: 250 quid a month at 15% for 40 years, 5.7 million. Amazing. An extra 50 quid a month from day one over those 40 years. 6.9 million. That extra 50 quid a month turns into 1.2 million pounds extra because of the rolling down the hill, because of the compounding. That is all that’s happened there, is that 50 quid a month. Literally 50 times 12 times 40. You’re putting in an extra 24 grand, but that 24 grand thanks to compounding turned into 1.2 million pounds extra. That’s a decent rate of return.
Jason: That is not bad there, is it?
John: Meanwhile, or that could only … 600 pounds.
Jason: Just at high street.
John: If you leave it in a high street bank account. 600 pounds, 1.2 million. I know which I’d rather have. I encourage anybody who’s listening to this, literally I will drop a link to say in the show notes. It will be in the Facebook group. Search Big Idea Podcast group if you’re not already in the group. We’ll drop the compound interest calculator in there. Have a play with figures. It is great fun, it really is. We use this on a daily basis now, so I am looking at an investment at the moment. It’s a commercial property investment, and in the prospectus … basically to give you an outline of what they’re paying a flat 10% per year on my cash invested, plus 25% bonus after 10 years. The total return of investment is 125% after 10 years. That’s what the brochure says. The brochure says you put 70,000 pounds in, and in 10 years’ time you will have had 157,500 pounds. That’s 125% return. I think that’s great.
What they haven’t told you in the brochure is you can compound that, because every year they pay you your seven grand 10% back. Well go compound that 10% again. If you do that, if you just compound those 10%’s over those 10 years, then the return jumps from 125% to 184% return, which gives you an extra 42,000 pounds, so an extra four grand a year. Just by compounding it.
John: Just by taking the money they’re giving to you and basically giving it back to them, saying “reinvest that.” It’s delayed gratification, isn’t it? Most people go “right. You’re going to pay me seven grand a year, lovely. Thanks. I’ll go on holiday for that. I’ll take out a lease on a car, buy a boat, I’ll waste that money.” What Rich Dad Poor Dad calls doodads. Just waste that money. Actually, just use the power of compounding and time. That’s just a 10 year period. If you can get an extra 40 grand out of that investment without having to go back to the guys and saying “That’s not good enough. I want a better deal. I want this. I want XYZ.” All I’ve said is, actually, I’m going to take the money they’re giving me and rather than spending it on doodads, I’m going to spend it. I’m going to reinvest it back in the market. If I can get 10%, great. That’s an extra 40 grand. Where if I’m getting 15%, then you’re talking it’s probably more like 70-75 grand extra on top of this.
Jason: Excellent. How have we been using it?
John: How have we?
Jason: Because [inaudible 00:21:14] kind of examples, don’t they?
John: What we’ve been doing I think is in our business. Our very first business, net free stuff, basically was a freebie website, wasn’t it? That when we sold it was turning over about 10 grand a month. We started that business, I started that business. When was that? Six years, seven years, before we sold it with 100 quid. Imagine turning 100 quid into 120,000 pounds a year revenue stream. Basically by reinvesting every penny. I spent 100 quid on a domain name, on a crappy looking website. When I ran into a little bit of money, I then reinvested that in a bit better design, of a newsletter software. The minute I had a few hundred quid, I went to London and met some contacts there. Just literally reinvested every penny that I owned, for a good 18 months.
It took nine months to earn anything from that business. I was putting in time, so I was reinvesting my own time. Also any money it made. It took nine months to earn its first check. I wish I’d framed it now. I cashed it at the time because I also wanted to reinvest it. Now I wish I’d framed it because it was for 13 pounds and 51 pence. I still remember that to this day, it was like April 2001. I had this check, and I was like “I just earned real money from an idea. Brilliant.”
Jason: Cash it, quick.
John: I’d gone from there. April 2001, the business earned 13 pound, 51. Nine months later, I gave up my job to do that full time. Because literally it accelerated. I earned 13 quid, I reinvested it. I can’t remember what I bought. Now all of a sudden I was able to invest in newsletter software, and getting better contacts and better design. Before you know it, I’d done a few deals. “I’m earning 2,000 pound a month. Where the hell did that come from? Now I’m making 2,000 pound a month, let’s do some advertising.” I did some that didn’t work well. I did radio advertising, and advertising in the newspaper, and banner ads everywhere. Then all of a sudden, [goodglads 00:23:39] was launched, and we were able to just reinvest everything into that, which was a phenomenal return on investment. Nevermind 10%. It was a money machine. We were chucking probably 100 quid a day at it, and getting 1,000 pound a day out.
What’s that? 900% return on investment, but not on that. That was turning around so quickly because most people are used to talking in terms of 10% a year. We were getting 900%, and we were getting that money back two months later. We were then able to reinvest that money and get the return on that, two or three months later. We were recycling this cash. Three times a year, four times a year. At over 100% every time. We were doubling our money every time, and just able to do that several times a year. That’s where most people can do it.
Is look, if you’ve got a business that’s making a little bit of money, even if it’s a side business and you’ve got a day job at the moment, just reinvest what you’ve got. If you can avoid cashing out, if you can avoid taking a wage from it, do that. We’ve gone through all of our businesses that we’ve done. Almost everyone that we’ve done now, where we’ve had real success, is because we’ve reinvested it. [LiveFootball 00:24:59] I’ll put you. We bought this website, six and a half grand. It was earning 600 quid a month. We reinvested everything. We did conversion rate optimization on it, we did ad words on it, we completely redesigned the website, we chucked everything we had at that for about a year.
For that first year, we made no money from this website. We bought it based on the fact that it was turning 600 quid a month, bit it didn’t. It earned us nothing for the first year. That site then made us over half a million over the next three years, because we reinvested everything. One of our main businesses now, [FreeRacingTips 00:25:31], we started that as a joint venture in 2008. The only investment we started with that, which was I bought it on Ebay. [inaudible 00:25:40] going to Google. We had basically three guys putting in an hour a day. We just reinvested our time and all of our money that the website made, for about 18 months.
We went from no earnings, 18 months. Even after 18 months, that website was earning … I don’t know. 500 quid a month? 600 quid a month? That now turns over 700 grand a year, and employs six full time people. God knows how many outsourced third parties. That was a 500 pound investment, nine years ago. We’ve compounded that.
Jason: It’s huge growth, isn’t it?
John: It is, from 500 quid. We’ve turned 500 quid into 700 grand a year. That’s not all profit, but we’ve created this behemoth, and it employs six people now. That provides six people with a living, off of a single 500 pound investment. Say nine years ago. How did we do that? All that we did was compound the design. Better design. Increase the advertising spend. Doing [SCO 00:26:49] work, doing conversion rate optimization, increase the ad spend some more, get even better design, do some PR, increase the ad spend even further, get some staff in, increase the ad spend even further, increase the ad spend, increase the ad spend, and spend even more on advertising. Because you can just ramp it up and absolutely scale it.
What we’re working on the moment, form ratings. We bought that in 2013, so three and a half years ago now, for three grand. Based on it was earning 300 quid a month. We bought it for about 10-12 months’ earnings. We’ve so far over three and a half years, we’ve compounded that site to the level it’s earning about two grand a month now. We’re now working on taking that to the next level and compounding that up. We’re now saying “Let’s take the two grand a month that’s earning, and let’s reinvest that. Let’s compound that growth. Let’s get much better design on there. Let’s allocate some of our staff resources and our time to putting the systems, the process in place. To grow that number base, improve the customer experience, and then once we’ve done that, we increase the marketing spend.”
Jason: You’re commanding a lot. It’s not only just an injection of cash. Because that’s not what some people can do. It’s investing time, and it’s investing group assets.
Jason: A bit of reserve resources. Learning a lot, really. If you can learn to do it yourself, you don’t have to outsource to lots of things. It really doesn’t necessarily involve cash per se. Anybody could kind of pick it up and run with it, with a bit of knowledge, and a bit of doing, and a bit of time to do it with.
John: [inaudible 00:28:28] Once you’ve got the cash, then reinvest the cash as well. Cash plus time. Again, if there’s a physics major here. Cash plus time equals momentum, or something about that. I mean we invest in many different areas now. We’ve got properties, commercial and residential. Silver bouillon, land, art, stocks, shares. We use compounding in all of these areas, and you do get phenomenal growth by it. For me, business blows them all out of the water, for exactly what we were talking about earlier. The ROI you can get because you can compound. Not only your money, but your money and your time, your leverage, your staff, your resources, your systems, your processes, and most importantly your knowledge. Because once you learn something, you can’t unlearn it. All you’re doing is adding to that learning. You know a bit, and then you learn a bit more and you learn a bit more.
All growth isn’t linear, to me. It is cumulative. The more you keep on learning, the more you’re going to grow, the more you’re going to succeed. The easiest way to do that is to keep listening to us.
Jason: It is. I’m just reading. I know you chose a different book about content, about writing, didn’t you? For monthly groups. I kind of chose a different book because I like the [inaudible 00:29:52] books so much. I’ve gone in for “Sell or Be Sold”. That is a lot about knowledge. You’ve got to learn the knowledge to sell. If you learn the knowledge to sell, it’s not something they teach you in schools, because schools don’t find selling important. You have a use selling, wherever you go, whatever you do. Whether you’re selling yourself to get a loan, whatever, you’re trying to get a deal out of somewhere, or whatever. You’re kind of selling yourself or selling your services or whatever the case may be. Without that knowledge to sell, then you kind of can’t make those sales, and therefore you kind of fail and you don’t do things. That knowledge is going to be a topic a bit later on, I think.
John: It is, definitely.
Jason: In our series, because it’s really important.
John: I think definitely, yeah.
Jason: I mentioned [Pardon 00:30:27] again.
John: You do. I’m sure we made a promise last week that we weren’t going to mention Grand Pardon this one.
Jason: I thought it was last week.
John: The last week we promised that we weren’t going to mention it in this week.
Jason: Okay, that’s right. It’s a different book. I know a couple of different people have looked at the book that you recommended, Be Obsessed or Be Average. They’ve read it and they’ve thoroughly enjoyed it.
John: This podcast is brought to you by [crosstalk 00:30:48]
Jason: Surprises. Just to show you I’ve been reading up on my knowledge. That’s good.
John: It is. You’ve touched on a point there, which I think is a whole podcast itself. That is “What is the school system actually teaching?” Because they’re still completely stuck in the industrial age, whereby they’re churning out people for jobs. Not for businesses, not for entrepreneurs, not for investors.
Jason: Not for success.
John: Not for the calibre of people that listen to this podcast. We’re back next week with another show. The topic next week is one that everyone’s been asking for. That is looking at the work/life balance. It’s something that I know a lot of people struggle with, and it’s something that we’re going to tackle next week. If we’ve got time and we’re not too busy with the family stuff. In the meantime, don’t forget to join us in the Facebook community. You’re looking for big idea podcast. Put that in the search bar, you’ll find us. Ask to join, and we’ll approve it, and you’ll be in. You can continue the conversation before, during, and after our podcast. Ask any questions, tell us what you’d like us to cover for the next month.
Jason: You can watch the live recordings of the podcast as we do them. They’re live on Facebook net. Hello everybody.
John: Which is quite entertaining.
Jason: I did wave at the camera there, for those of you listening on audio.
John: Of course, the other thing is we’re going to have a section on the site for the show notes. Everything we talk about, any links or anything we’re going to share with you, we’ll put them in there. You’re looking at bigidea.co.uk/podcast, and we’ll have-